Johnny Herbert interview: Max Verstappen should’ve been disqualified in Barcelona, George Russell won the corner, Dutchman will change racing style now he’s one penalty point off race ban

Speaking to RooBetAlternatives.com, former F1 driver and steward Johnny Herbert commented on the recent events of the Spanish Grand Prix.

Herbert believes Max Verstappen deserved a black flag and disqualification for his collision with George Russell, to stop him from recreating similar situations in future races.

The Brit also believes Verstappen will change his race style now he’s one penalty point off a race ban.

Question: Max Verstappen received a 10-second penalty after colliding with George Russell, should it have been more?

Johnny Herbert: “Yes, I totally agree with Nico Rosberg, Max Verstappen deserved a black flag and should have been disqualified. There’s a point where you have to be hard on the driver when there have been many of these types of incidents. Verstappen is the best driver on the track, with the best racecraft and judgement, but there is always a story with him. It’s usually some kind of racing incident we all end up talking about with Verstappen, unfortunately.

“It was clear as day that Verstappen’s move on George Russell was on purpose. He backed out at the right corner, where he could then attack and retake the place by driving into Russell. To me, that’s overstepping the mark.

“The move he made in Imola made me go ‘wow’, then the move he made in Spain takes away that ‘wow’, it totally disappears and it’s frustrating. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again until I’m blue in the face, Verstappen doesn’t need to make these moves. He has the skill to make clear overtakes, and the wheel banging is probably to make a point because of what happened at Turn 1 on the restart with Russell. He felt aggrieved at having to give the place back. On this occasion, Verstappen did not gain as big as an advantage as he did in Saudi Arabia where he got penalised, but he got away with that one too when it was only a five-second penalty and should have been a standard 10-second penalty.

“A black flag is something that could have been thought of by the stewards and the race director, you have to stop this wheel-banging type of racing. Anyone can go and crash into another car, it’s totally wrong to purposely bang into a fellow driver. It’s happened historically, with Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost, with Michael Schumacher and Damon Hill, and with Jacques Villeneuve too. In the 1997 incident, Schumacher was banned for the season.

“For me, I’d like to think I was a hard and clean racer, and Verstappen can be that too, that collision overstepped the mark. I don’t want to see it, nor do the drivers. That type of racing should not happen, if it does happen, the penalty should be harsher to stamp it out. It can’t just be a 10-second penalty, otherwise you’re treating it like any other racing incident.”

Q. Gianpiero Lambiase told Verstappen he needed to give the position back to Russell, did he need to?

JH: “It was George Russell’s corner, he was down the inside of Max Verstappen. I know Verstappen may not agree that he lost the corner, but the drivers and stewards have to agree on the rules and standards of the racing. When it doesn’t go there way, they’ll disagree with the agreed-upon guidelines.

“What Russell did was totally and utterly fair and racey, yeah, there was a little bit of contact but that’s racing. When you’re fully up the inside, it is your corner. There’s an element that states if you’re not in control of the car, then it can be deemed that you didn’t complete the move. But, you can never be fully in control of the car when overtaking on a corner, because the car is always moving about. There’s no chance of overtaking the car with that rule, the drivers will always be on the edge and the car is always fighting you when on the edge of grip. I can’t see how Russell did anything wrong.

“Verstappen was brilliant with his judgement by staying very close to Russell’s tyres, the drivers are very clever, they know if they place the car in the right place, there will be a chance for the car next to them to understeer or oversteer and if you hang on then contact can happen then its straight on the radio to say ‘he hit me and pushed me off’. When you lose a corner, you have to slot in behind the car your racing. We can’t criticise Russell for trying to race, otherwise we’re killing the overtaker.”

Q. Can you blame Verstappen for crashing into Russell, or was it his team’s fault?

JH: “I know that Red Bull said the fresh hards were their only choice, and they knew Charles Leclerc was on the faster tyre, so he was obviously going to have more pace. The fresh set of hards compared to an old set of soft or mediums could be a better option, but the hards didn’t seem like the right call, they were always going to be hard work for Max Verstappen with zero grip. Verstappen showed his skill when he kept the car on the track when it snapped on the straight.

“Can you blame the Red Bull team for what happened in the end? I don’t think so, they just ran out of options. But, the hards were definitely the first trigger in Verstappen’s head, he would have been annoyed about his situation. The next trigger was when he was asked to let Russell overtake him, these triggers built up which led to the collision.

“Red Bull are not as strong as they were, but that’s because McLaren have done a better job. Red Bull have had a very good run and won those four championships with Verstappen, it’s very very rare to continue to dominate the sport longer than that. Other teams have technology that makes them capable of catching up to the leading team. McLaren are the better team, but Red Bull are still in the mix. It didn’t work in Barcelona, but it worked out for them in Imola. I still think Red Bull are the best in terms of strategy, they put a different strategy into play that put them in with chance of fighting it out with the two McLaren’s race in Spain but is was never enough. On sheer performance, they clearly haven’t dominated like they used to do, because McLaren are working as a team and is clear to see.

“Are the little goings on behind the scenes at Redbull preventing the team from going forward? Adrian Newey left, there was the issue with Christian Horner, Jos Verstappen is very vocal about the difficulties within the team. It’s not the perfect harmony it once was before, people are a little more on edge now.”

Q. Verstappen is now on 11 penalty points, one off a race ban, can you tell imagine that happening soon?

JH: “You’ve got to think about the penalty point situation, one point can be from very simple error of judgement. Does the driver need to think differently now? Yes. But, Max Verstappen is the smartest driver on the track. The ability he has to make the rules bend to his advantage is unlike any other, he has so much mental capacity he can push to the limit but now he must be a smart racer.

“Verstappen will still go for the championship, he’s still winning races and getting pole positions so he’s in a position that if the McLaren drivers have a bad weekend, he’s right in the mix for the race win and the championship. That one penalty point from being banned will be on his mind it will not change the way he’s driving. For years, Verstappen has been the chased but now he’s the chaser, he’ll have to be slightly more measured. Those little moments of aggression will have to be controlled.”

Q. Did you see Verstappen’s interview with Rachel Brookes?

JH: “Rachel Brookes questioned Max Verstappen brilliantly, she really tried pushing all the buttons and Verstappen didn’t really respond, but it was telling at the same time, Well done, Rachel. Then we find out Verstappen has admitted he was in the wrong, so during that interview, he knew in his gut he was in the wrong.”

Q. Russell made jokes, so did Norris, saying it was a move you’d make in a video game, would that annoy Verstappen?

JH: “Lando Norris seemed embarrassed or didn’t want to comment on the situation because it was too awkward as a friend? As Norris said, the collision was something you’d see in Mario Kart, now that says a lot to me!

“I’ve squeezed drivers to the edge, but I’ve never driven into anyone on purpose. I don’t know many drivers who have done that. You can reference Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost, or Michael Schumacher, but they’re very rare moments, but these kinds of collisions should be kept on the computer screen, on Mario Kart. I had hoped those days were gone, but they clearly haven’t. But you can still be the best by being the best pure race driver.

Q. If Verstappen crashed into Lando Norris or Oscar Piastri instead of Russell, would the stewards have reacted differently?

JH: “It should make no difference who is involved in the collision, if it’s for 10th position or battling for the championship.  The penalty has to be harsh for all, whoever the drivers are or whatever position they’re competing for. People will be upset on social media and have some strange, aggressive opinions but the drivers know what’s right and what’s wrong.”

Q. How toxic would a championship battle between Russell and Verstappen be?

JH: “We don’t want the dirty part of racing. I go back to 1994, between Michael Schumacher and Damon Hill, Hill was robbed. That wasn’t fair. He should’ve won the championship in 1994, but he didn’t because Schumacher made the move with a damaged suspension after he made a mistake and hit the wall and took himself out of the race, but more importantly, Damon, who should’ve won that race and the championship. Is that a pure way of winning the championship? No, it’s not. You’re not the better driver, you’re trying to be above the rules and so that type of situation should be stamped out quickly.

“I want all the drivers to be pushed to the absolute maximum. The move George Russell made on Max Verstappen was damn good. It was a move you’d expect from Verstappen. There’s an element where Verstappen has scared the drivers off from attacking him because he could outfox them. Now, the drivers are up for the challenge and Verstappen is being attacked more often. I want to see the best driver come out on top, and I hope we see that more often in this season and in 2026 hopefully in more equal machinery.

“We’ll continue to see the McLarens and Verstappen competing for race wins, but you can throw in the likes of George Russell and Charles Leclerc, they can take points off the likes of Lando Norris, Oscar Piastri and Verstappen.”